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Disclaimer: Veganismness is a healthy choice. My problem
isn't with vegans, it's with militant vegans who refuse to see the down side of
their lifestyle and decide to impose it on others. Also, it's my planet too, and
I believe that if even a significant minority of the population becomes vegan, it's
the end of our species.

Why vegans are wrong:

1) Our population is approaching 7 billion people. You can't feed them all 
with soybeans without converting All arable land into producing farmland. Is 
even that enough?

2) If it's not enough, what do you tell the starving masses while you're munching 
on bean curd? "Sorry, PAL, but we don't eat things with faces!" 

3) No one should be a vegan without first sitting on a real honest-to-goodness plow and 
plowing a field. Look behind you, and marvel at all the chopped-up rabbit nests, 
mouse nests, lizard/snake body parts, etc. Speculate on the (thousands/millions) of 
small animals and insects dying for you. How big or human-like does a face 
need to be before you'll attach value to it?

4) He's an eeeeediot!
 "Wait a minute, Evil Corporate Apologist," you 
say, "we can let a few billion peeps starve and keep areas like Yellowstone pristine!"


Most is the usual personal attacks. I managed to glean a few nuggets:

"What do people not understand about most of our crops being fed to food animals? ..."
"If our arable land was used solely for feeding ourselves..."
"He's an eeeeediot!"

1) ALL ARABLE FARMLAND genetic diversity? Seriously?
2) Militant vegans will say the life of a cow equals yours and
mine. I disagree. If you don't, we have nothing more to talk about.
3) I have to assume all the posters on that page agree that animals with
small enough faces aren't worth anything to anyone.
Way to be consistent, vegans.
4) "Do you want to live in a world populated with humans, a small
number of food plants, and rats? And nothing else?"

BEEFEATER: "What will you do about deer, wildebeest, etc.? Wild
game keeps how many tens of millions from starvation
TODAY? Shall we let them die? The U.S. has been trying to build farms in
unfarmable places in Africa for 40+ years."

Corn fed beef is a luxury item, somewhat like the
Chinese dishes with gold dust sprinkled on them. No one is dying, repeat NO ONE
is dying because I eat corn fed beef. An Eritrean isn't getting my sandwich or your
sandwich because he didn't pay for it and because he has no way of taking delivery
of said sandwich.
There's plenty of food to go around; what we don't have is:
1) distribution channels to get it to Eritrea
2) the will to devote our lives to feeding people who live in unsustainable places
So...shall we deny him his cattle? Take them away to live out their lives
in a zoo (we need the grasslands for crops) and give the new farmer bean seeds in
exchange? Of course...we'll have to remove the wildebeest, elephants, etc...or
just remove the people...?
No one said that denying millions of years of evolution would be easy, did they?

Green consumers sometimes take the moral high ground -- but it's all 
too easy to slide back down. New research suggests that those who 
make "green" purchases are subsequently more likely to behave 
selfishly, cheat and steal.

"Another way to think about it is that you're off the hook -- you've done 
your good deed," explains Benoit Monin, a psychologist at Stanford 
University in California who studies the phenomenon, called "moral 

Moral self-licensing has been shown elsewhere, too. In the run-up to 
the 2008 US presidential election, for instance, Monin found that 
people who expressed their support for Barack Obama, thereby 
winning credit as non-racists, were more likely to later declare that 
whites would be better suited than blacks for a hypothetical job 
vacancy in a police department (Journal of Experimental Social 
Psychology, vol 45, p 590).

>Comments: the amount of crops and food it takes to feed the animals
>  that are brutally slaughtered every day is more than most
>  third world countries get a month. and thats just in the us
>  alone. 
Cows eat grass. People don't.
Hmmm...If there's a mouse in a clump of grass
that a cow then eats, was the mouse brutally slaughtered?

>  these thrid world countries could make better profit, and be
>  less starving if the amount of meat consumed in america would
>  drop. 
 I'm sorry...profit from what?
The food supply, like the money supply, isn't a limited pie
that everyone gets a percentage of. Food and money are
the sum of human labor and are UNLIMITED given ambition
and work. No matter how much money Bill Gates has, it 
has no effect on anyone else's money supply. No matter how
much of what I eat, it has no effect on the average Ethiopian.

>  the amount of pollution caused from the raising,
>  transporting, slaughtering, processing, and packaging of
>  animals is far greater than the amount of pollution coming
>  from motor vehicles. 
Suck on a tractor pipe then tell me th
Pollution isn't the issue. 
Moderator sez: red herring!

>  being a vegan is considered the healthiest way to eat. it
>  helps to prevent heart disease and stroke, arthritous,
>  diabetes, and obesity. the consuming of meat generally leads
>  to these health issues. 
We're finding that many of these diseases are genetic. As a fat
guy, I know for a fact that obesity is caused by not putting the fork
down.  Or is it a conspiracy by Big Snack Food? Do Bush's cronies
own Hostess stock? Smoking gun?????
It seems like every time I see a centenarian on telly they mention cigars
or bacon. Yeah, yeah...isolated incidents...luck of the draw...whatever.

>  before you go saying your smarter, look into the real facts.
>  your an absolute idiot.

You've changed my mind by
attacking me personally! I see the error 
of my ways! Oh, THANK YOU!!


A Vegan being realistic


Thank you very much for your kind and considerate tone.

The picture at the bottom of that page (//
kansas-may-2005-39.gif) is in Butler county, Kansas. Much of the land there is hills and 
rocks; not farmable at all except on a subsistence level. The cows there eat grasses that 
are of no value to us, watered by rain that would otherwise be unusable to us. Taking 
those cows out of our food chain would wouldn't affect our other foods like soybeans, 
they would just be lost calories. (Yes, I'm taking out the final fattening-up at feedlots, 
which is a luxury we could do without.)

While millions of people of dying of malnutrition every year, should we do that?

> From:
> To:
> Subject: Vegans aren't wrong
> Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 12:03:25 -0800
> Hi Kevin,
> I own and operate a vegan restaurant in Portland Oregon and I would like to point
> out that you are correct in your statement of the fact that we are approaching seven
> billion "two-leggeds" on the surface of the planet, but you are incorrect when you
> assert that in order to feed them all we would have to convert every available square
> foot of ground into arable farmland. 
> The fact is that over 70% of soybeans raised in North America go directly into cattle
> feed. That same amount of soy could be used directly as food for humans and would
> not only feed us all, but have far less impact ecologically and atmospherically than
> supporting the "protein middleman" Mr. Cow in the field. I do not hate Mr. Cow. As
> a matter of fact I love Mr. Cow and wish that he and millions of his kind did not have
> to wind up in dirty, horrifying slaughterhouses every day.
> Secondly I would like to point out that ONE POUND of hamburger requires approxi-
> mately 110 GALLONS of non-recoverable fresh water to produce from the birth of
> the calf to it's flesh arriving at the grocery store. Soybeans, by contrast, require about
> one / one hundredth that amount of non-recoverable fresh water.
> Thirdly, the rainforests in South America are not being cut down to make toothpicks,
> furniture, or chopsticks for Chinese Restaurants. They are being cut down to make
> way for grazing cattle which the local farmers sell to the international marketers.
> I am not a militant vegan and I will never tell anyone what to eat or how to think,
> and I am fully conscious of my own, and every humans, fallibility. 
> I just feel that your facts do not support your conclusion that a vegan diet would
> lead to environmental catastrophe.....quite the reverse I believe.
> Sincerely,
> David Stowell
> Chef Veganopolis Cafeteria
> Portland Oregon

Vegan Paradise
I wonder if a vegan species could ever evolve intelligence? To paraphrase the great Larry Niven... How much smarts do you need to sneak up on a leaf?
Kansas...Land of Ahhhh's!
mmmmmmm...prairie oysters....

Hate my images? Click here! Repeatedly!
Vegan Paradise - the later years...
Comedy Relief

Comments? Good luck!

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